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Fresno State's student-run newspaper

The Collegian

Fresno State's student-run newspaper

The Collegian

Some anatomy students face a dissection dilemma

Some students go to school to endure long lectures. Others put on some shorts and a tank top and run laps at the gym. A few pull out dead bodies, put on some gloves and — with scissors in hand — start snipping away.

Just another day in the life of students in Anatomy and Physiology 33, one of multiple anatomy classes on campus that give students a real hands-on experience with once-living flesh.

The university’s anatomy and physiology courses dissect cats for the purpose of learning the anatomy of humans, and is mandatory for biology, pre-med and health science majors. But recently, one student stood apart from the class and voiced she was morally and ethically opposed to animal dissection.

Lisa Gallyer is a senior studying health science and gerontology.

“Cats are sometimes acquired illegally and killed inhumanely, and I don’t want to support that,â€Â said Gallyer, a vegetarian.

She said that many reports and videos are accessible online about animal cruelty and how animals are housed and killed for the use of science and experimentation.

Jennifer Debban, professor of physiology and anatomy at Fresno State, disagrees with Gallyer̢۪s stance, confirming that the animals used in her class are humanely euthanized to her knowledge, and are euthunized because of overpopulation. She said the dissection serves a purpose because it is a tool for students to learn.

“The class is human anatomy and physiology; its not a pre-vet course and definitely not a feline anatomy course,â€Â Gallyer said.

Debban said that cat anatomy is similar to that of humans because they have organ tissue, muscle tissue and blood vessels, much like a human.

“I sometimes get students that are squeamish, but less than a dozen don’t want to participate out of the 13 years I have been teaching the class,â€Â Debban said.

She said cats were used for dissection because human cadavers are really expensive to buy and are too big to accommodate on campus.

Gallyer said she would much rather cut into a human cadaver because humans give permission to use their bodies for research. She said cats have no choice in what deplorable conditions they are kept in until it is time for them to be studied.

“I am not a biology major,â€Â Gallyer said. “I am a health science major, which emphasizes the [promotion of healthy living] through education. I don’t feel I need to cut into an animal’s flesh to learn what my major requires. I should have the right to refuse dissection and use alternatives.â€Â

She said there are so many alternatives, such as watching a dissection video, using the laboratory text, showing pictures of a cat dissection, using a plastic model of human muscle and organ tissues and computer simulation.

“It is merely the science and anatomy department’s opinion that alternatives are inferior or inadequate,â€Â Gallyer said. “I was willing to work harder, pay for the computer program, or whatever else I may have needed to do to pass the course without having to dissect an animal.â€Â

Gallyer pointed to some Web sites that offer alternatives to dissection, such as The Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine at www.dissectionalternatives.org and The Association of Veterinarians for Animal Rights at www.avar.org.

Mandy Predmore, 22, a former Fresno State student who is currently enrolled at the School of Veterinary Medicine in Davis, said, “You don’t get the same feel for the anatomy of the animal with computer simulation as you would with dissection. It is necessary to feel the tissue and the organs under the scalpel.â€Â

Predmore said the computer program is beneficial, along with dissection, but should not be used as an exclusive method of learning.

“I wouldn’t want someone operating on my animal if they had only done computer simulation and never worked on animal tissue,â€Â Predmore said.

Gallyer said she was told by her professor, Debban, that dissection was a part of the class, and if she wanted to pass the class, she would have to be a part of a group that dissected a cat.

Gallyer said she felt she was forced to dissect the cat herself because the curriculum didn̢۪t provide any alternatives and no group member was willing to do so.

“Out of my group of three students, I was the only one who dissected the cat,â€Â Gallyer said. “They refused to touch her; they were grossed out.â€Â

Gallyer said dissection is not ethical, teaches insensitivity toward animals, contributes to animal cruelty and supports the mindset that animals are expendable “tools.â€Â

“When it was observed that my group’s cat was pregnant, one student said ‘how sad, they killed a pregnant cat.’â€Â Gallyer said. “I thought that statement solidified the ignorance, lack of compassion and total disregard for the animal’s life. I don’t understand why the entire experience wasn’t sad to her prior to seeing the pregnant cat.â€Â

Gallyer said Debban told the class that the animals are “humanely euthanized,â€Â and by using them for science, their death wasn’t in vain.

According to Gallyer, Debban told her that the fact that the animals are skinned should make Gallyer feel better because it disconnects the lab cats from the “fluffyâ€Â cats at home.

Debban said she believes the cats are euthanized by the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (SPCA), then sent to a mortuary-like place, where they are released of all their fluids and embalmed.

She said there are no hazardous chemicals used in embalming the cats, so there is no physical harm to students.

She said the animal̢۪s tissues are used for science rather than incinerated.

Area representatives of SPCA were adament that they were not involved with the research.

“Our shelter has never released any live or deceased animals to be used for science or research, and never will,â€Â said Norm Minson, director of the Central California SPCA.

“We understand the need for research,â€Â said Beth Caffrey, education director for the Central California SPCA. “However, we as a humane society do not believe those animals should come from us. Those that take part in this business can be easily corrupted.â€Â

“No student is forced to cut; they can sit in a group and watch another student dissect,â€Â Debban said.

But Debban still recommended hands-on experience as the best means for learning cat and human anatomy for the exams in her class.

“You can’t see it as well as if it was right in front of you,â€Â Debban said, comparing actual dissection with the dissection video offered.

Tiffany Friedland, 21, a biology student at Fresno State, said she thinks dissection is necessary to fully understand the anatomy of a cat or human.

“I love animals; I adopted my cat from the SPCA,â€Â Friedland said.

Friedland first dissected a cat at Monte Vista high school in Danville, Calif.

“After dissecting the cat, I felt I had a better understanding of my adopted cat’s anatomy as well as my own,â€Â she said.

Friedland thought that if the animals had to die anyway, why not use their bodies to learn from and to benefit science?

“I would only want to dissect animals that were humanely euthanized and weren’t killed specifically for medical research,â€Â she said.

Friedland is taking anatomy courses in hopes of someday becoming a professor and working for a university. She said she wants to conduct research that will help cure Parkinson̢۪s disease. A member of Friedland̢۪s family provides her motivation to find the cure.

“I want to be a professor so I can inspire others to continue research,â€Â Friedland said.

But in spite of the perceived scientific benefits, Gallyer̢۪s opinion on animal dissection remains unchanged.

“I was willing to be tested on my knowledge that I could have received from studying,â€Â Gallyer said. “Learning was the bottom line for the class, not the dissection itself.

“It was simply about showing respect and compassion for those who deserve it, and don’t have a voice of their own.â€Â

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Comments (38)

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  • E

    ElizabethDec 10, 2008 at 11:05 am

    i know first hand as a cat lover i understand that you wouldn’t want to cut open a cat, but i didn’t have that big of a problem with it because i know that the cats got to live a life. i did the cat dissection and i found it rather interesting once i got past the fact it was a cat. yes it’s gross but you do lean a lot more when you get to handle the parts you are leaning about.

    Reply
  • E

    ElizabethDec 10, 2008 at 6:05 pm

    i know first hand as a cat lover i understand that you wouldn’t want to cut open a cat, but i didn’t have that big of a problem with it because i know that the cats got to live a life. i did the cat dissection and i found it rather interesting once i got past the fact it was a cat. yes it’s gross but you do lean a lot more when you get to handle the parts you are leaning about.

    Reply
  • K

    KristenNov 23, 2008 at 4:19 am

    What bothers me the most is that I am a nursing student and also a huge animal rescue/rights supporter, and vegetarian.

    Watching this episode made me more than sad because I know that in Anatomy I will have to watch or participate in dissection. I truly feel that I won’t be able to in good faith, do that. It’s sad that my beliefs and lack of other options could stand in the way of a career I would be good at.

    Reply
  • K

    KristenNov 23, 2008 at 11:19 am

    What bothers me the most is that I am a nursing student and also a huge animal rescue/rights supporter, and vegetarian.

    Watching this episode made me more than sad because I know that in Anatomy I will have to watch or participate in dissection. I truly feel that I won’t be able to in good faith, do that. It’s sad that my beliefs and lack of other options could stand in the way of a career I would be good at.

    Reply
  • J

    JessiAug 18, 2008 at 5:21 am

    I did animal dissection in high school, grade 9 and 10. I had a massive problem with it because they just threw it at us one day and it had nothing to do with the chemistry unit we were doing at the time.

    Dissection should be a choice in high school, but a college course in anatomy?
    Come on, you had to see that coming.

    As a vegan and animal rights supporter I am not for animal dissection but if she (Gallyer) felt so strongly about it she should not have taken the class, nor given in and did it when she felt pressured.

    And when did humans become a super-species? We are the same as all other animals (or mammals I guess) we just have over-inflated egos

    peace

    Reply
  • J

    JessiAug 18, 2008 at 12:21 pm

    I did animal dissection in high school, grade 9 and 10. I had a massive problem with it because they just threw it at us one day and it had nothing to do with the chemistry unit we were doing at the time.

    Dissection should be a choice in high school, but a college course in anatomy?
    Come on, you had to see that coming.

    As a vegan and animal rights supporter I am not for animal dissection but if she (Gallyer) felt so strongly about it she should not have taken the class, nor given in and did it when she felt pressured.

    And when did humans become a super-species? We are the same as all other animals (or mammals I guess) we just have over-inflated egos

    peace

    Reply
  • T

    TrishaJul 27, 2008 at 9:09 pm

    Ok. So I really do not like animal dissection. There are hundreds of farms in the U.S.A that are just for raising animals so we can kill them, and bring them into our schools. And you hear all this news about how we don’t have enough of this animal or that, so we take animals and breed them, and kill them. For what? To learn something that has alreasdy been learned and recorded. Sure people may think that it is fun, but you can get replicas of animal bodys, and it would be just as fun, cheaper, and animal friendly!

    Reply
  • T

    TrishaJul 28, 2008 at 4:09 am

    Ok. So I really do not like animal dissection. There are hundreds of farms in the U.S.A that are just for raising animals so we can kill them, and bring them into our schools. And you hear all this news about how we don’t have enough of this animal or that, so we take animals and breed them, and kill them. For what? To learn something that has alreasdy been learned and recorded. Sure people may think that it is fun, but you can get replicas of animal bodys, and it would be just as fun, cheaper, and animal friendly!

    Reply
  • H

    Heather BillingsNov 4, 2007 at 2:14 pm

    The Collegian Staff Comment

    Vehemently opposing views that cause violence and prejudice is a good thing.

    Respectfully disagreeing with someone else’s beliefs is fine and encourages public discussion.

    Ridiculing someone else’s beliefs, especially when those beliefs do not affect you, is intolerance.

    Personally, I wonder what professions health science majors end up in, and if dissecting cats is really all that valuable to them.

    I also wonder if Ms. Gallyer ever took high school biology. We dissected baby pigs in ours.

    Reply
  • H

    Heather BillingsNov 4, 2007 at 9:14 pm

    The Collegian Staff Comment

    Vehemently opposing views that cause violence and prejudice is a good thing.

    Respectfully disagreeing with someone else’s beliefs is fine and encourages public discussion.

    Ridiculing someone else’s beliefs, especially when those beliefs do not affect you, is intolerance.

    Personally, I wonder what professions health science majors end up in, and if dissecting cats is really all that valuable to them.

    I also wonder if Ms. Gallyer ever took high school biology. We dissected baby pigs in ours.

    Reply
  • W

    WhateverNov 4, 2007 at 11:53 am

    My tone may have been a little uncalled for, but I consider her attack on my beliefs just as offensive. Just because her belief system is more established than mine doesn’t mean she shouldn’t have to justify her position.

    Silly ideas should not be tolerated just because someone believes them. What about those who think black people are dumb and violent? Should we respect those opinions and BELIEFS? Everyone gets so caught up about BELIEFS like we can think no wrong. Well we believe wrong sometimes. There is a wrong answer: Humans are not animals.

    Religion, although BS, is usually fine. Things get tricky when people start ignoring common sense because of it — the earth being a few thousand years old, etc. Just read Leviticus for tons of great laughs. Women on their period – that chair you sat on is unclean until evening!!

    Reply
  • W

    WhateverNov 4, 2007 at 6:53 pm

    My tone may have been a little uncalled for, but I consider her attack on my beliefs just as offensive. Just because her belief system is more established than mine doesn’t mean she shouldn’t have to justify her position.

    Silly ideas should not be tolerated just because someone believes them. What about those who think black people are dumb and violent? Should we respect those opinions and BELIEFS? Everyone gets so caught up about BELIEFS like we can think no wrong. Well we believe wrong sometimes. There is a wrong answer: Humans are not animals.

    Religion, although BS, is usually fine. Things get tricky when people start ignoring common sense because of it — the earth being a few thousand years old, etc. Just read Leviticus for tons of great laughs. Women on their period – that chair you sat on is unclean until evening!!

    Reply
  • D

    Dunt BeawankaNov 3, 2007 at 5:43 pm

    Religious views ARE mumbo jumbo. Religion is trash and this notion that we have to RESPECT the views of others is whack. If you believe you have an imaginary pal who lives up in the sky then I DO NOT RESPECT your beliefs. You are mentally defective. Look at the many problems we have in today’s world. An beliefs that an imaginary man in the clouds knows what it takes to live a good life is what gets people killed.

    Reply
  • D

    Dunt BeawankaNov 4, 2007 at 12:43 am

    Religious views ARE mumbo jumbo. Religion is trash and this notion that we have to RESPECT the views of others is whack. If you believe you have an imaginary pal who lives up in the sky then I DO NOT RESPECT your beliefs. You are mentally defective. Look at the many problems we have in today’s world. An beliefs that an imaginary man in the clouds knows what it takes to live a good life is what gets people killed.

    Reply
  • B

    BluestoneNov 3, 2007 at 1:57 pm

    Whatever,

    I agree with gm. Don’t foist you’re views on others, and others won’t foist their views on you.

    Reply
  • B

    BluestoneNov 3, 2007 at 8:57 pm

    Whatever,

    I agree with gm. Don’t foist you’re views on others, and others won’t foist their views on you.

    Reply
  • G

    gmNov 2, 2007 at 11:59 am

    Whatever,

    If you are going to take the position that humans are animals just like others, fine. What you don’t need to do is ridicule the religious views of others as “mumbo jumbo.” Make your argument based on your own beliefs.

    Reply
  • G

    gmNov 2, 2007 at 6:59 pm

    Whatever,

    If you are going to take the position that humans are animals just like others, fine. What you don’t need to do is ridicule the religious views of others as “mumbo jumbo.” Make your argument based on your own beliefs.

    Reply
  • W

    WhateverNov 2, 2007 at 10:02 am

    You’re ignoring BIOLOGY.

    We are humans, but humans are also ANIMALS. We are mammals, to be more accurate.

    Think what you want about religious mumbo-jumbo, but we have legs, blood, lungs, brains, hair, just like other mammals, which are ANIMALS. I know you think you’re so darn special that you somehow get to avoid animal status, but get over yourself!

    Humanity’s a big mistake!! We weren’t meant to do all this crap! But noooo we had to go develop big brains and language.

    Way to go, world!! I hope you’re happy.

    Reply
  • W

    WhateverNov 2, 2007 at 5:02 pm

    You’re ignoring BIOLOGY.

    We are humans, but humans are also ANIMALS. We are mammals, to be more accurate.

    Think what you want about religious mumbo-jumbo, but we have legs, blood, lungs, brains, hair, just like other mammals, which are ANIMALS. I know you think you’re so darn special that you somehow get to avoid animal status, but get over yourself!

    Humanity’s a big mistake!! We weren’t meant to do all this crap! But noooo we had to go develop big brains and language.

    Way to go, world!! I hope you’re happy.

    Reply
  • J

    Jenn E.Nov 2, 2007 at 9:33 am

    Whatever,

    “Humans ARE animals. I wish people would at least use the language correct.”

    Speak for yourself because I AM NOT an animal, I am a HUMAN BEING. God created one to dominate the other for a reason and the soul has everything to do with it! Animals don’t worry about being a “good horsey” “doggy, or “kitty” so they can go to animal heaven – (or animal hell for that matter). GET REAL – THEY ARE ANIMALS!!

    Reply
  • J

    Jenn E.Nov 2, 2007 at 4:33 pm

    Whatever,

    “Humans ARE animals. I wish people would at least use the language correct.”

    Speak for yourself because I AM NOT an animal, I am a HUMAN BEING. God created one to dominate the other for a reason and the soul has everything to do with it! Animals don’t worry about being a “good horsey” “doggy, or “kitty” so they can go to animal heaven – (or animal hell for that matter). GET REAL – THEY ARE ANIMALS!!

    Reply
  • W

    WhateverNov 1, 2007 at 9:22 am

    You’re an animal.

    Reply
  • W

    WhateverNov 1, 2007 at 4:22 pm

    You’re an animal.

    Reply
  • H

    Heather BillingsOct 31, 2007 at 10:50 pm

    The Collegian Staff Comment

    “I wish people would at least use the language correct.”

    So do I. It’s “correctly.”

    Reply
  • H

    Heather BillingsNov 1, 2007 at 5:50 am

    The Collegian Staff Comment

    “I wish people would at least use the language correct.”

    So do I. It’s “correctly.”

    Reply
  • A

    Ash Ketchum BowserOct 31, 2007 at 9:50 pm

    Three problems—–ONE : the animals ARE killed specifically for dissection—-that’s well documented.

    TWO: the value of the animals is of little value to students not getting into vet. medicine

    THREE: students know full well what they’re getting into when they elect to enroll in anatomy labs

    Reply
  • A

    Ash Ketchum BowserNov 1, 2007 at 4:50 am

    Three problems—–ONE : the animals ARE killed specifically for dissection—-that’s well documented.

    TWO: the value of the animals is of little value to students not getting into vet. medicine

    THREE: students know full well what they’re getting into when they elect to enroll in anatomy labs

    Reply
  • W

    WhateverOct 31, 2007 at 3:50 pm

    Humans ARE animals. I wish people would at least use the language correct.

    Humans are different than every other animal for many reasons, but the “SOUL” has nothing to do with it. It’s called language and bipedal locomotion.

    And everyone knows it comes down to cuteness. If horses were any uglier and were less useful, they’d be dinner!

    Reply
  • W

    WhateverOct 31, 2007 at 10:50 pm

    Humans ARE animals. I wish people would at least use the language correct.

    Humans are different than every other animal for many reasons, but the “SOUL” has nothing to do with it. It’s called language and bipedal locomotion.

    And everyone knows it comes down to cuteness. If horses were any uglier and were less useful, they’d be dinner!

    Reply
  • B

    BluestoneOct 31, 2007 at 2:23 pm

    Why did Ms. Galleyer take this class if she’s so against dissection of animals? I’m assuming that the class is a requirement for her degree, but she knew what she was getting herself into when she declared her major. It’s not the university’s responsibility to provide computer simulators or human cadavers just for her. If she doesn’t want to go through with this class, she needs to find a school that better suits her beliefs and transfer there.

    Reply
  • B

    BluestoneOct 31, 2007 at 9:23 pm

    Why did Ms. Galleyer take this class if she’s so against dissection of animals? I’m assuming that the class is a requirement for her degree, but she knew what she was getting herself into when she declared her major. It’s not the university’s responsibility to provide computer simulators or human cadavers just for her. If she doesn’t want to go through with this class, she needs to find a school that better suits her beliefs and transfer there.

    Reply
  • J

    Jenn E.Oct 31, 2007 at 1:46 pm

    I am so sick of people who seem to think that an animal has more value than a human being. While I don’t condone being cruel to animals, if it came down to me, another human vs. a dog or cat, the animal would have to go. Let ‘s get real here – animals don’t have a soul, humans do.

    If you want to get technical, is Ms. Gallyer refusing to walk anywhere because she is stepping on some poor insect who was minding his own business and did not ask to be stepped on? Or, for that matter, the very material of the shoes she wears, even if it is canvas and not leather, some animal had to sacrifice some hair. What about her clothes? Is she going without because some poor sheep had to lose his hair without his permission so she can wear jeans and the T shirt that says” Save the Animals?” Need I go on? Where does it stop?

    Reply
  • J

    Jenn E.Oct 31, 2007 at 8:46 pm

    I am so sick of people who seem to think that an animal has more value than a human being. While I don’t condone being cruel to animals, if it came down to me, another human vs. a dog or cat, the animal would have to go. Let ‘s get real here – animals don’t have a soul, humans do.

    If you want to get technical, is Ms. Gallyer refusing to walk anywhere because she is stepping on some poor insect who was minding his own business and did not ask to be stepped on? Or, for that matter, the very material of the shoes she wears, even if it is canvas and not leather, some animal had to sacrifice some hair. What about her clothes? Is she going without because some poor sheep had to lose his hair without his permission so she can wear jeans and the T shirt that says” Save the Animals?” Need I go on? Where does it stop?

    Reply
  • J

    Joel M.Oct 31, 2007 at 11:37 am

    Read the article…the student isn’t going into medicine, but health education. It would be silly if she were wanting to be an MD, a vet, or even a nurse, but she’s not studying to be any of those things. She’s not even a biology major.

    What is worthy of ridicule are the other three group members who refused because it’s “gross.”

    Reply
  • J

    Joel M.Oct 31, 2007 at 6:37 pm

    Read the article…the student isn’t going into medicine, but health education. It would be silly if she were wanting to be an MD, a vet, or even a nurse, but she’s not studying to be any of those things. She’s not even a biology major.

    What is worthy of ridicule are the other three group members who refused because it’s “gross.”

    Reply
  • E

    Edward ChurroieturOct 31, 2007 at 10:52 am

    SPCA is filled with hyprocrites. I would wager a large sum of money that only a small percentage of their members are vegetarian. They most assuredly put the lives of cats and dogs ahead of all other animals. On the other hand, PETA is too far to the extreme on that same end of the ideological continuum.

    Whoever thinks that lab cats and dogs are only used after dying from natural causes is being naive. They are raised and killed simply for the purpose of serving science. Grow up, understand the issues, and realize that human medical advancement is a far more noble cause than saving a few lab animals——cats OR dogs. You don’t have a place in medicine if you can’t get over slicing a dog open to better understand anatomy. What, you’re going to tell me that you can’t give a patient a prostate exam because it’s “icky”?

    Reply
  • E

    Edward ChurroieturOct 31, 2007 at 5:52 pm

    SPCA is filled with hyprocrites. I would wager a large sum of money that only a small percentage of their members are vegetarian. They most assuredly put the lives of cats and dogs ahead of all other animals. On the other hand, PETA is too far to the extreme on that same end of the ideological continuum.

    Whoever thinks that lab cats and dogs are only used after dying from natural causes is being naive. They are raised and killed simply for the purpose of serving science. Grow up, understand the issues, and realize that human medical advancement is a far more noble cause than saving a few lab animals——cats OR dogs. You don’t have a place in medicine if you can’t get over slicing a dog open to better understand anatomy. What, you’re going to tell me that you can’t give a patient a prostate exam because it’s “icky”?

    Reply