Dr. Schettler. Please respond. This has been interesting to read. Shabazz (I dont think thats the real name) asked you some simple questions to which you gave a weak response. Get past the sarcasm and respond. Or have some of your students or fellow professors respond and argue the point. I feel this sort of dicussion is very important.

Meta Schettler,

This is my last response to this thread nut let me make this crystal clear… you are not doing yourself or those who I really believe you are trying to support any good. You have made potentially false accusations about people based on non-existent evidence. You have called someone’s statements racist without knowing them or their intent. You have acted as if you are the only person on the planet to have ever heard the name “Madiba”. You have put words in the mouth and thoughts in the mind of a man you have most likely never even met. Now, you have used abroad brush to paint “men and white people” as some sort of universally bad thing. Guess what? That could be viewed as racist and sexist. Do you see what you are doing? You are feeding the problem. Seriously, step out of your office and get out there to interact with the world. Talk to men, talk to whites, talk to all sexes and races. There are good and bad in all groups but you’ll find most people, regardless of gender, ethnicity or any other false divisions we put up are fundamentally good.

I think someone pointed out something that makes a lot of sense: this is a student forum. As an ex-student, I am going to bow out of this discussion. For the sake of the students and for the sake of your cause, I would recommend that you do the same.

I wish you all the best.

The Collegian Online is a public forum for student expression, as noted below.

Professors, get a life.

If you spent as much time on your teaching as this this forum, maybe I’d learn something.

Dr. Schettler

The former Bulldog, now residing in New York City is right. How incredibly presumptuous to think that only in your office could someone read the name “Madiba” on a poster. Perhaps someone read Mandela’s autobiography. Maybe the person was educated at Brown University and learned of the name there. This posting was not meant to offend anyone.

There is a group out there called “White Students United,” it’s a KKK high school group. If you want to start a group called that at Fresno State, you might receive a little resistance. Historically, oppressed groups, e.g. women and people of color, have needed groups and spaces where they did not need to spend energy explaining their experience to out-groups, e.g. men and white people.

Meta Schettler,

None of us are qualified to assume what an individual would or would not support. I’m not even saying you are wrong about what Mandela would support but we cannot put words in anyone’s mouth or intent in their hearts. This is true no matter how educated we are or how wise we believe ourselves to be. Only an individual can speak for them self.

This is a little off topic but why would you possibly suspect the person posting saw “Madiba” on a poster in your office and therefor must know you? Maybe I am missing something but it seems awfully far fetched. Isn’t that name common knowledge for anyone who’s done much reading about Mandela or South Africa in general? Just sounds a little odd to me but it is, of course, none of my business.

Dear Meta.

You are likely already offended by the name I have chosen to use on this posting. Fortunately “offending” someone is not a crime yet. And I, like you have chosen to use this forum to state my opinion and perspectives. It is no secret that the “most leaned” are always the easiest to offend. But the purpose of this not is not to explain why academics are so easily offended, rather; I would like to ask you a few simple honest questions. Please note, these topic and questions involve race, and the perception of racism. If these topics offend you please stop reading now and have a nice day. If you can answer my questions and enlighten the group, please continue on.

http://www.csufresno.edu/chhs/depts_programs/social_work/students/groups.shtml
http://www.csufresno.edu/studentactivities/programs/studentorgs/cultural.shtml

The above links describes several groups on campus. Namely:
African American Student Social Work Association
1. Trabajadores de La Raza.
2. Asian Social Work Student Organization:
3. ASIAN STUDENT ASSOCIATION
4. BLACK STUDENTS UNITED
5. CALIFORNIA STATE SPANISH ASSOCIATION
6. CAPOEIRA BRASIL CLUB
7. LAS GRITONAS de FRESNO STATE
8. M.E.Ch.A.
9. PERSIAN CLUB
10. PUNJABI SOCIETY
11. SOUTHEAST ASIAN CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP
12. WOMEN’S ALLIANCE

These are just a few of the groups/organizations on campus.

These groups appear to be based one any one of several criteria.
Religion. Example- SOUTHEAST ASIAN CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP
Race. Example- PUNJABI SOCIETY
Ethnicity. Example- BLACK STUDENTS UNITED
Gender. Example- WOMEN’S ALLIANCE
Details on Student organizations can be found at. http://www.csufresno.edu/studentactivities/documents/NEWORG07.pdf
Clearly student groups can be identified by a type of organization. Academic/Professional Cultural,Recreational Honorary ,Religious ,Other/Specify,Social ,Sorority/Fraternity.

Dr. Schettler; Question(s)

Why are there no “White groups” by title, and would such a group be considered racist? I see groups on campus already self identified by color and ethnicity. Let us suppose that I start a group called “White Students United” and the purpose of this group is : To provide White students a collective voice on campus, provide academic survival, while promoting cultural, social, and political awareness and involvement. You realize that is the mission statement of Black Students Unites, I simply changed the word “Black” for “White”.

Would you have a problem with that? Why or Why not.

Surely you recognize that there are thousands of unrepresented students on campus. Why are you not offended and outraged by that? What about the Canadian students, the Norwegian students, the Phillipino students, where are the transgender support groups and why are you not an outspoken advocate for them? Do they not deserve the same platform and status as MECHA, the woman’s alliance, BSU and Women In Black (why does WIB not welcome transgender, homosexuals and men)? http://www.womeninblack.net/mission.html
Why can this not be discussed without someone (usually academics) getting offended?

Free speech feels so good. I am glad there are student groups on campus. The more the better, I don’t care how frivolous (N.O.R.M.L National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, yes this is really a group art CSU Fresno) or how effective. Student groups are a good thing. I don’t care if a group is based on religion, race, color, ethnicity, sports team, sexuality ect. What I fail to understand is how there can be so many groups that promote various things, yet the second I propose a “white student group” I am now considered a racist. Dr. Schettler, I want you to know that I’m not offended that you called my previous questions stupid. I support diversity, equality and fairness.

Sincerely

X

Ex-Bulldog – thanks for your constructive criticism. I didn’t like Madiba’s tone & I thought it was a stupid question. The African National Congress (Mandela’s party) excluded non-Africans for most of its history so Mandela (Madiba) would probably support Black Students United, not attack them. Also, I have a poster of Mandela in my office with the headline “Madiba at 85” so I suspected that Madiba probably knew me, hence the “twisted” comment. Such is the anonymity of the internet.

Julius,

You make some valid and constructive points. Whether or not we all agree on everything is not the issue. We never will. Being able to rationally discuss it though is the key to solving problems. Even if I were to not agree with you 100%, I respect your logical and sincere arguments. That is the only way for society to share our individual concerns and discover all of our common ground. We most likely have a lot more of it than we think. In fact you’ve basically demonstrated that… we all basically want equal justice. We just have to collectively decide what that is. That can only come if there is an absence of prejudice and false portrayal from both sides.

Ex Bull_Dog:

“Not brining someone to justice for a crime that has been committed because of their race is wrong. In fact, it is racist. It only serves as a
recruitment tool for the klan and other hate groups.”

This is precisely the issue relative to the families and most of the leadership of the Jena 6. It is not an issue of whether the 6 boys shouldnt receive punishment for the fight it is the level of punishment exacted upon the youth relative to similar acts (Fighting/battery and hate criminal activity) by the white youths (see my comments earlier).

I appreciate, and applaud you for not falling into the name-calling trap that others have followed on this issue which is why I chose to respond to your point (not that your informed position needs my stamp of approval). But I choose to involve myself in thoughtful discussions of fair-minded individuals who arent clouded by propogandized language from the left or the right. Each issue, although potentially fused with a tinge of historicized biases, merits unique and nuianced analyses. The Jena, LA case, albeit sullied by a deep-seated ethos of racial bias through public policy, is simply a case of judicial indiscretion, subversive racial animous couched in a victimized reaction to agitated events (I throw the rock then hide my hand), a community divided not on principle but on visceral reactions against “outside-intervention” which results in gang-like support of even injustice (on all sides).

Ex-Bulldog, I hate this event can be so easily misconstrued by those who dont realize, as Prof Shettler, aptly portrayed and I am sure you agree, namely, “Hate Speech that incites violence is against the law” . That is the case and the Supreme Court has ruled that our 1st ammendment rights end at the point of intent. The legal question is what was the intent of the noose ( a joke)…maybe but one laced with intimidation and a history of hate; what was the intent of the black student beat up 2 weeks later at a white school party( unpunished and unadjudicated but reported), what was the intent of the Barker kid who, with his freedom of speech, called Bell and Bailey “niggers” the day of the fight. Bell, Bailey, Beard, Shaw, Purvis, and Jones all ages 14-16 at the time of the fight should not have faced adult charges of attempted murder…thats the point. And frankly, I can say this cause I am very close to some of the leadership, if the local court wouldve acted immediately on the superior court’s decision to overturn the adult charge of murder to Bell and released him from adult prison to a juvenile facility, America would not have watched 25,000 plus march on Jena. But the LOCAL D.A’s insistence to STAND THEIR GROUND and not give in to racial pressure took 3 weeks and finally the Bell kid was placed into Juvenile Court and released on bond just this past Thur. only to come home to KKK threats of death and more.

I leave you with this quote and this is the intention…NO MATTER WHAT RACE-BAITERS FROM BOTH SIDES HAVE TO SAY…

“We do not condone violence of any kind, but we ask that people be given a fair and even chance at the bar of justice,”

“Tonight, Mychal can go home, but Mychal is not out of the criminal justice process. He goes home because a lot of people left their home and stood up for him,” he said.

“Let America know — we are not fighting for the right to fight in school. We’re not fighting for the right for kids to beat each other. We’re fighting to say that there must be one level of justice for everybody. And you cannot have adult attempted murder for some, and a fine for others, and call that equal protection under the law. Two wrongs don’t make one civil right.”

Meta Shettler:

What exactly do you think empowers you to judge someone’s opinions and comments and deem them as racist? You have taken a valid, possibly productive discussion and turned into petty, childish name calling and accusations. You lifetime academics so are disconnected form the reality of the world we live in it is frightening. To deny one person a platform to speak their mind is wrong. Think about it… You have gone way past speaking out against prejudice and bigotry. You have now become prejudiced against others yourself. Your kind hides behind the right to free speech but you do not want those who disagree with you in any way to enjoy that same right. That’s the sort of thing one would normally only expect from a Hitler, a Stalin, or a Hugo Chavez.

This type of thing only further divides. It undermines the work of all the reasonable people who came before and worked so hard to undo the evils of racism. Not brining someone to justice for a crime that has been committed because of their race is wrong. In fact, it is racist. It only serves as a recruitment tool for the klan and other hate groups. All of us, black, white, Asian, Hispanic, whatever we are must be decent law abiding citizens and take responsibility for our own actions or inactions. If we are to ever be truly equal, we must act equal.

I would love to see a color-blind world but extremist views like yours will only drive the wedge of division deeper.

Creating division, especially division based on racial lines, is not creating unity.

If multicultural harmony and understanding is your goal, you shouldn’t name your group “Black Students United.” If multicultural harmony and understanding isn’t the goal, I fail to see the point of such a group.

Wow – I find your tone so incredibly offensive. You should probably go try to meet some African American students on campus and talk to them face to face, instead of taunting me in a racist, negative way. I also find your appropriation of Nelson Mandela’s nickname to be extremely twisted & highly inappropriate. I’ll pass your message on to some students I know as well as some campus administrators. Good luck with that attitude….

Hey Meta. You seem to know alot about racial issues. Help me out with this one. If I were to start a group on campus called “White Kids United”, or “White Students for Peace” would I be racist? I think we both know that WOULD be considered racist. So tell me dear distinguished Doctor Schetler, why the double standard? I wonder how many white kids are in this “Black Students United” group. Are they even welcomed in the group? Could a Asain kid join, or a Latino student, how about an Native American student? How “black” do you have to be to join? What is the mission statement if this group? Will someone please help me out? Dr. Meta?

Meta Schettler: A professor? David Duke has not held office in LA in over a decade. He’s irrelevant to this discussion, anyway, unless you want to compare him to another racial arsonist – Sharpton. What is *he* doing getting mixed up in this situation anyway? Anyone remember the Tawana Brawley and Freddy’s Fashion Mart fiascos, where old Sharpie was a principal instigator? Go look it up.

These people in LA should learn to work out their problems themselves, without importing the race-hustling poverty pimps and their clueless followers to incite further hatred. How sad.

Oh for heaven’s sake – I’m a professor. I didn’t mean literally “fight” – I meant in the courts.

If you choose violence, you will be brought up on charges. What does David Duke running for office have to do with anything? Any bigot can run for office—-you live in a democracy. Fight at the ballot box with your mind and your ballot. If you use a closed fist (or open in the form of a backhand), regardless of the moral issue at stake or circumastances of racism, the courts shouldn’t see this as a justification—And they don’t.
And the term “racist” is overused. Racist implies a hatred of a group. I wouldn’t call southern courts “racist.”

Again, I agree with Julius. I’ve heard that this part of Louisiana voted in favor of re-electing David Duke. You don’t “compromise” with people like that. You fight them.

Why compromise what is legal statute? The appellate court overturned the adult conviction of Bell and the local jurisdiction (who has dug its feet in the sand) refuses to let him out of the adult prison and offer reasonable bail. If the D.A. wants to charge him again as Juvenile, then CERTAINLY release the kid til the Juvenile trial. Again, I appeal to a sense of rationality here. THE APPELLATE COURT REVERSED THE CONVICTION OF BELL AND THE LOCAL D.A. REFUSES TO LET HIM GO! No compromise is needed! Why play give and take with a child’s life? If we are a country of law and order and we entrust our court system to provide checks and balances, the town of Jena and the D.A. must adhere to those tenents, swallow its pride, and Let the Bell kid go. Everything else, at this point, is retributive justice not corrective justice which CERTAINLY has a purely arrogant and highly racist underpinning.

Meta, yes, but many protesters were calling for much more——-i.e. the immediate release of the last suspect, Bell. Yes, some compromise is in order.

“you dont send teens to prison for 25-70 year sentences for a fight prompted by racial slurs, hate crimes and a city and school system who failed to deal with this manner properly and fairly for the past 7 months.”

Thank you, Julius – that says it all!

wow…it is a SUnday Morning and I am reading this. Well, The Jena 6 issue, especially as Rev. Jackson, Martin King 3rd, NAACP, is concerned is as follows:
ALL Charges, all not 3, of Attempted Murder should be dropped (no weapon, no intent to kill, no premeditation).
The punishment should fit the crime. If a battery case is proven, as it has been against Michael Barker, the Juvenile System should adjudicate (there is no room in an adult male prison for teens in a school-yard fight…this type of warehousing is the crux of the racial issue)
The District Attorney, just as the one in Durham, NC, acted too swiftly and emotionally, and didnt look at the totallity of the issue and the precipitous actions leading to the fight. It is testimony, by the Jena 6, that Barker was involved in a fight weeks prior that beat up jENA 6’s, Robert Bailey (ONLY 1 WHITE TEEN OF 4-5 WAS CHARGED AND HE WAS CHARGED WITH SIMPLE ASSAULT) then, the day of the fight it is reported by students at the school that Barker called Bell a Nigger in the hallway.
Do I, or any leaders of the Jena 6 rally want to ignore the ramifications of the fight against Barker, NO>>>>but the Juvenile Court or even the school system should suspend, hell even expell or alternative education, but you dont send teens to prison for 25-70 year sentences for a fight prompted by racial slurs, hate crimes and a city and school system who failed to deal with this manner properly and fairly for the past 7 months.
Come on people….surely educated minds, and clean hearts can understand the issues in an empirical and rational way. Lets raise the level of critique her at Fresno State!

The bigotry shown by AC S. and Danny N. is profound. These type of racist attitudes are society’s problem.

Meta S: Slater made that same conclusion and corrected the previous poster.

If I walk in to Howard University and make a speech against affirmative action and i’m mobbed and beaten by a group of black students, a good many would likely call that an incitement and “hate speech.”
Turn the other cheeck is an action rarely preached anymore

I’m white and a black kid once called me a N%$#%@. I simply didn’t respond to the language

Black sensitivities in 2007 are not the same as they were after desegregation and Jim Crow
You can choose to be oftended by what you want. The nosse thing cannot be exccused

Danny: you make a solid argument. Black heroes are not comparable to what they were in the past. I know plenty of American history from slavery through JC laws. Al Sharpton and his boys are doing more harm than good to the movement. Trying to get a violent criminal freed (Bell) or a cop-killer (Mumia) out of any punishment is beyond comprehension

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the statue that talks about hate speech inciting violence isn’t usually applied to violence against the hate speaker.

I’m saddened by the comments above, that so many college students don’t seem to know enough about the history of racial violence in the South. And it trips me out to hear college students justify hate speech as “free speech.” Hate speech that incites violence is in fact against the law.

This is nothing like Jim Crow. pleading to free one of six thugs has no similarity to theJim Crow era of the south. A crime was committed, mind you. Lets just free all black men in the US justice system while were at itt, since the system is flawed.

Try kids as kids. whites and blakcs for the harm that was done.
PS: Hanging a noose and burning a cross is hate crime. It is meant to intimidate. other forms are allowed since they don’t have that purpose.

these new-fangled racial equality causes and cases seem less about real equality and more about proving the system is out to get black folks.case in point Don Imus, Jena students accused, and Micheal Vikc.
also the fact that this was six blacks beating up one white makes it a hate crime. the noose was appaling, YES. hate crime?was anyone’s person (not speaking of emotions) victimized? a beating that is racially motivated makes each violent attack (white on black, black on white) a hate crime in the eyes of the law. looking at the protests, you’d think people need to be schooled on legal mmatters. hate is NOT against the law in Louisiana, Cali., or any other state of the union. this ain’t Germany, folks.

This further shows a disconnect between civil rights “heroes” and victims of the “racist white justice system” from the past versus those of the present.

Past: Jackie Robinson, Frederick Douglass. Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King Jr., Marcus Garvey, Malcolm X, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Satchel Paige, James Meredith, Louis Armstrong, WEB DuBois———–

Present: OJ Simpson, ‘Jena Six’, Crystal Mangum (Duke rape ‘victim’), Al Sharpton, Rep. Cynthia McKinney, Jesse Jackson, Mike Vick, Barry Bonds, Fiddy Cent————

The former were true heroes. The latter are sad testaments to culture and don’t deserve much of the widespread community support they seem to receive.

They beat up a guy who used racial slur and said he supported the nooses going up. He wasn’t even one of the students who put them up.

Hate speech is still free speech. Like it or not, it’s allowed in the U.S.

Then 6 of them beat up that one person. That’s 6 on 1. While I agree that attempted murder was too harsh for charges, assault and battery is the correct charge and they should be tried accordingly.

Set free and released with out any punishment is not going to happen. And it should not happen unless proven innocent in a court of law, not because protesters say so. The justice system is not controlled by popular vote, that’s why judges work for life, it’s in the US Constitution, Article 3. Look it up.

Let ’em free!? Sounds light to me. Maybe don’t try them as adults—-but letting them off scot free? Hanging a noose is racist, but last time I checked racism isn’t illegal in the US. Beating someone to a bloody pulp is illegal, of course.

This doesn’t strike me as a Rosa Parks or Emmitt Till type cause. Where am I mislead?