You said: “Do people really think feminists invent these issues?” The answer? YES! Just check the NOW website. And Organizations that makes excuses for women that kill their kids, distort the issues in general: forget them. Women as “sexual vehicles for men?” Sometimes, It can be at least the opposite!
Look, it’s the opposite. And Most men aren’t treated equally to women. If women, on average, were killed more often in war, if they died seven years earlier than men, we could talk. It is men that die earlier, die in wars, are discriminated against in divorce proceedings, etc. They get longer prison sentences for the same crime than women, who are more likely to get probation.
It is men make up 85 percent of the homeless. Although I appreciate voting, I’d rather not get to vote, refuse someone’s clumsy advances, and still outlive everyone, and have decent money, than be badly injured in a war, die in a workplace accident, and be blamed for everything in the world. Not even close! Men make up a minority of the U.S. population in part because this country has been unfair to low-income and minority men, not women. We don’t have patriarchy. A real patriarchy would not allow so many million-dollar Oprah Winfrey’s and Martha Stewart’s. It wouldn’t allow middle-class women business owners to exist. The whole complaining about being a “sex object” is crazy. Sex is pretty good. It beats shopping all day. Marriage is a joke, I guess it’s only for the frigid wives. The radicals think that all sex is rape. No wonder. They must have no sex drive to begin with. I think being a success object is worse. Men have built houses, invented electricity, technology, built roads, created governments, medical technology improving people’s lives. Otherwise we would all live in caves. Maybe they thought if they did enough work, women would stop complaining about them. I guess, that didn’t work. (No one, man and women, would have the opportunity to vote, with man’s interest in creating countries. Women got the vote without being forced to serve in the military, and other equal responsibilities. Many men couldn’t vote before 1920. Some women could. So there.) In the Native American societies, NO ONE could vote. their society did as well as ours. If you want a real patriarchy, go to Saudi Arabia. Today. If you feminists believe that you don’t “need a man”, prove it. If you think you are “independent”, Give up your electricity, computers, phones, cars, etc. Don’t ask the garbage men, contruction workers, politicians, to help you with ANYTHING. Form your own countries apart from men, and build their own housing. Then we’ll talk about how you are “empowered” and can do anything!
Go to the website, “A woman against feminism”., it disproves the myths you believe are true. I like the comment about women’s colleges existence in the 1800’S! Built by men by the way! “It must have been tough dragging a stove”. Don’t believe the media propaganda.

To the “Observer,” and others who were disturbed by this blog, I’m wondering if you’ve seen some of the past blogs? Some are really brutal. I usually don’t even look at the blog. None of what I am saying in this addition, is intended as sarcasm and I hope it doesn’t come across that way.

I think it would be much more beneficial to all, if we used the blog for intelligent discourse, as we would in an open discussion in a classroom. The blog seems to have almost become another kind of reality show. It becomes entertainment, rather than a medium to use to increase our knowledge. However, it belongs to everyone and there is freedom of speech, although I presume there there are some limits to what can be said.

The hatred that centers on the issue of feminism is what disturbes me. And while i would prefer the banter not be so personal, my major and myself, were attacked. I felt the need to attack back. It isn’t the first time my feminist views have ignighted emotions. It won’t be the last. And I am just one very small part of a very large group.

But I do believe there is a line that, when crossed, reduces a person to a level I don’t care to be at.

However, I may very well write again about feminism.

Take care everyone and I hope the semester is going well for you.

That is the very issue at hand. It is not the mainstream that refuses to look at issues with the critical eye—-it is what you picked up in those women’s studies classes, CJ. Calling viewpoints and opinions “ignorant” is an action you will only find in a women’s studies program. The discourse is a little more adult in other social sciences.

You know Mike, you are ignorant as to what feminism is about. You seem to think it is about women hating men and beating them down. Even if that were true (and it is not) I wonder what you think about the past and current state of affairs where women are physically beaten, and/or stalked, and/or murdered on a daily basis in this country, let alone other places aroound the globe?

You say feminists only see women as an oppressed group. Women have been in the forefront in taking on causes that strive to help various groups of people. This is an ongoing struggle and if you didn’t learn that from your one women’s studies class, then you missed the entire point.

I also question your knowledge of valid vs. invalid studies and how they are used by scholars. It appears from your statements that any study that shows women are oppressed, is invalid. And you accuse me of over generalizing? Huh. Interesting.

But hey, if you believe that men are oppressed by women, go ahead and prove it. Do the research. Write a book.

One last thing, because this is counterproductive and is turning into a pissing contest, feminists fight against a patriarchal system that strives to control women. If you refuse to look at the evidence with a critical eye, then there is little hope for you.

I find all of this horribly offensive, not so much because of historical brain farts or the hilariously hypocritical Jen-bashing, but more because of a frightening paucity of critical thinking and courtesy. Could the webmaster possibly delete this whole debate from the site?

And seriously, CJ, how about a new topic for once?

I wrote a comment last night, which was on the blog, but apparently dropped off today. So I’m writing again. I want to address the big mistake I made by saying that after women secured the vote, they went on to fight against slavery.

Well, just about anyone probably knows (including me) that the order was reversed. But there is a close link between those two periods.There is a strong link between the abolishment of slavery and the women’s movement, including work women did to assist the Black population, who still did not have equal rights, after the women’s vote was secured. I do hope that those who know the history will understand my brain glitch.

Credibility is important, but stuff happens. I certainly wish I had not still been writing my column ten minutes before deadline. Otherwise, I would probably have catught it. In addition, it gives the editor less time to look for mistakes before the paper goes to press.

And while I don’t care a gnat’s behind what people think of me, I do care what people think about feminism and the Women’s Studies Program. For that, I particularly regret the mistake.

And to Mike, who addressed comments to me personally, saying I introduced a study that was, “…semi-academic,” I have this to say: perhaps you should read my column a bit more carefully. The study was published in the ‘academic “Journal of Family Violence.” I didn’t submit something from Redbook, or Cosmopolitan, for instance, which are not academic sources. Perhaps you should be more thoughtful about what you write as well, unless of course, you know more than the scholars that published that study.

Jen and Cheryl,

You’ve both been indoctrinated by this women’s studies nonsense that defeats and impedes critical thinking.

Yes, those courses are semi-academic! One study about the reactions of some college student’s in response to two different scenarios isn’t a sufficient grounds to make generalizations about gender/sex. I know it was good fodder for classroom discussion in WS 120, but many of those professors in that department look at the world through tinted glasses. They hate white males, hate America, and are not shy about revealing those truths. A professor in a class I once endured pronounced that the concept of “machismo” was a white male stereotype of Latinos. All the fault of “whitey.”

So a women is the only type of human that can feel the burn of sexism and discrimination? That seems rather sexist in itself. Do you realize the level of reverse discrimination males 13-25 have to suffer in this post- Title IX day and age? You have no idea!!—-’cause you’re not male. Of course I would never say that at the threat of sounding like a radical feminist. 😉

Jen, you suffer from a very real problem suffered by many women. Plenty of women (again I’m stereotyping—men too) can not debate the merits of an argument without getting personal. You couldn’t respond to my initial post without attacking me as an individual and making assumptions about my personal life.

You’re married——bully for you. I simply don’t respect the instituition of marriage because it has turned into a way to emasculate the American male. That’s why men have to live in this over-feminized society where right is wrong, women are geniuses, men are dimwits, feelings take precedent over truth, boys are perfectly OK, girls need every possible form of assistance, and our federal government makes a preference for married couples over all others. Be a real feminist and don’t marry!!! There is a reason for a 50% divorce rate.

And finally, Jen, learn to hear another side to an argument. This is a valuable tool in a college environment. Many lack the ability to fully hear out an argument and then respond to the actual argument. You seem to be another one of many.

Learn the definition of “stereotype” as well. An idea or notion that someone doesn’t buy into or has problems comprehending is not the Websters’s definition of “stereotype.”

Thanks for letting me respond to the debacle,
Mike Greyson

“Well, Jen your perspectve is clearly derived from an old-school woman’s point of view and lacks realist notions.”
It does? How so? Are you upset that I don̢۪t fit into your stereotype?

“Why should a woman get married if she truly believes she is a feminist? Would that feminist not argue that she is holding off on getting married until that personal right/civil liberty is granted to all? Wouldn’t a feminist conceive the institution of marriage as a way to keep women down and reliant on a man? A married feminist is doing a disservice to the feminist community, I would argue.”
This shows your ignorance, Mike. There are many types of feminists in this world. Not all feminists are radical feminists.

“Also, you are fooling yourself to think that your husband is your best friend. He is a partner for economic and social reasons. Explore marriage in the context of history. The institution is losing its utility in this day and age.”
Fooling myself? No. Again you are trying to fit me in your little box of stereotypes. My husband is my best friend, as I am his. It happens. Get over it. I’m sure he would be happy to speak to you about it. As for exploring marriage in the context of history, I would love to explore the horrors of the institution with you (as a historian the subject intrigues me). Comparing my marriage with a couple who married in 1450 Europe is like comparing apples to oranges (the fact that I had a chance to CHOOSE when/if/when I want to marry and WHO I want to marry and the fact that I had the choice to attend university and work makes comparing the two ridiculous).

“Also, please don’t take a couple of your personal experiences and say that you’ve experienced true sexism.”
How would you know, Mike? What is “true sexism� to you?

“Lastly, in response to the column—Ã¢€“sex in a marriage often qualifies as rape. Feminists and their backers have had such a broad definition for rape that any coercive action constitues a rape. A man and a woman go to a bar—they both get hammered—they do “itâ€? and the man is a rapist. True story if you feel current rape laws are just. If a man doesn’t pressure his wife into some sort of sex during their marriage—-he isn’t likely to stay satisfied ’cause he ain’t gonna be gettin’ any.”
Actually, rape is anytime a woman says NO. You made a broad statement (sex in marriage is rape) and failed to back it up with any facts. I’m sure a strapping young man such as yourself has had sex (with a woman) before. You should know the difference between rape and sex.

“Prudish women who don’t put out and make their husbands feel worthless are often the cause of divorce—Ã¢€“Oprah doesn’t explain that little fact—-Well, she’s homosexual anyway—-so big deal.”
This is so ignorant, Mike. Check your facts and then get back to me. Did you know that women who marry early in life (20 or younger) are the most likely to get divorced? Why do you think this is, Mike? Use your brain and stop repeating what your bigdaddy told you about women.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad323.pdf

In closing, Mike, you are not a woman. You are not married. You have nothing but stereotypes to contribute here.

I submitted a letter to the editor, but just in case it isn’t printed, I’m making a comment here.

First of all, the error I made about the vote coming before the abolishment of slavery, bothers me more than it could possibly bother readers. However, there is a close link between ending slavery and the women’s fight for the vote. People who know the history, hopefully, will understand where my brain fart came from.

But quite frankly, I don’t give a gnat’s behind what people think of me. I do care a lot about how my public writing affects people’s views of feminisim and the Women’s Studies Program, whether negative or positive. So for that reason, I regret my mistake.

But honestly, how does one expect to understand what feminism is really about, unless they try to educate themselves on the issues? Is it just easier to call feminists names such as” male bashers,” than to really evaluate who and what feminists are about?

And to Mike, who directed your comments directly to me, and critisized my use of a, “semi-academic,” example of a study, I have this to say; perhaps you need to read my column a bit more carefully. I said the study was published in the ‘academic’ journal of Family Violence. So maybe you could be a bit more thoughtful about what you write as well.

Or perhaps you know more than the scholars who published it. If so, you probably ought to let them know it’s, “semi-academic.” I’m sure they’d appreciate the correction.

Cheryl,

Your man-bashing has reached a new low. The feminist theory classes can only take opinions and columns so far. Factual/empirical evidence and understanding of world issues in a historical contect is necessary to better clue you in. Throwing out some semi-academic study done to give futher credence to a belief one already holds doesn’t cut it.

Rape is second to murder in terms of criminal sentencing process.

Alleged rape victims are the MOST protected in the
eyes of both the law and the media.

The definition of rape has expanded way beyond its original intent.

You seem like you’d be front and center in the liberal lynch mob during the whole Duke debacle. And the “male-biased” and dominated media doesn’t even reveal Crystal Gail Magnum’s name once those guys were found innocent? That’s injustice.

Well, Jen your perspectve is clearly derived from an old-school woman’s point of view and lacks realist notions.

Why should a woman get married if she truly believes she is a feminist? Would that feminist not argue that she is holding off on getting married until that personal right/civil liberty is granted to all? Wouldn’t a feminist conceive the institution of marriage as a way to keep women down and reliant on a man? A married feminist is doing a disservice to the feminist community, I would argue.

Also, you are fooling yourself to think that your husband is your best friend. He is a partner for economic and social reasons. Explore marriage in the context of history. The institution is losing its utility in this day and age.

Also, please don’t take a couple of your personal experiences and say that you’ve experienced true sexism.
Sexism isn’t present at FS? You see how many Muslim female students have to wear the burqa? No, not really their personal choice but more of a family decision to keep the women oppressed and unequal to male relatives.

Lastly, in response to the column—–sex in a marriage often qualifies as rape. Feminists and their backers have had such a broad definition for rape that any coercive action constitues a rape. A man and a woman go to a bar—they both get hammered—they do “it” and the man is a rapist. True story if you feel current rape laws are just. If a man doesn’t pressure his wife into some sort of sex during their marriage—-he isn’t likely to stay satisfied ’cause he ain’t gonna be gettin’ any.

Prudish women who don’t put out and make their husbands feel worthless are often the cause of divorce—–Oprah doesn’t explain that little fact—-Well, she’s homosexual anyway—-so big deal

Mike, as a married woman, I would like to comment about your friends (the males who have been “emasculated by their wives”). Have they grown up and left you behind, or do they simply lack a backbone? Marriage is about equality, not dominance. My husband is my best friend, not to mention a grown man with his own sense of responsibility. I would be a tired soul if I had to tell my husband what to do all day. I would be disrespecting him, our marriage, and myself if I put him down all the time. I feel sorry for your friends if they (wife or husband) are subjected to someone telling them what to do or how bad they are. That’s not a healthy relationship, and I can safely say that’s not a representation of a healthy marriage.
Back to the sexism/feminism topic. Sexism, like racism, is still alive and well here in the United States. It’s a simple fact of life that I have learned to live with. I have not used it as a crutch, nor have I used it as an excuse for my failures. Although I never experienced sexism at Fresno State, I have experienced it at work and with men in my field of study. If women use the study of feminism (which is a broad term, by the way…it doesn’t necessarily mean radical all the time) as way to feel more confident about themselves, I’m all for it.

Mike, as a married woman, I would like to comment about your friends (the males who have been “emasculated by their wives”). Have they grown up and left you behind, or do they simply lack a backbone? Marriage is about equality, not dominance. My husband is my best friend, not to mention a grown man with his own sense of responsibility. I would be a tired soul if I had to tell my husband what to do all day. I would be disrespecting him, our marriage, and myself if I put him down all the time. I feel sorry for your friends if they (wife or husband) are subjected to someone telling them what to do or how bad they are. That’s not a healthy relationship, and I can safely say that’s not a representation of a healthy marriage.
Back to the sexism/feminism topic. Sexism, like racism, is still alive and well here in the United States. It’s a simple fact of life that I have learned to live with. I have not used it as a crutch, nor have I used it as an excuse for my failures. Although I never experienced sexism at Fresno State, I have experienced it at work and with men in my field of study. If women use the study of feminism (which is a broad term, by the way…it doesn’t necessarily mean radical all the time) as way to feel more confident about themselves, I’m all for it.

“But isn’t the past important? Of course it is. Aren’t college students required to study history?”

are they? ARE YOU?!!

jesus. this column, neyman’s blatherings considered, is the stupidest thing i’ve ever read.

why don’t you get your facts straight? greg morris above is correct. abolition of slavery came BEFORE women’s suffrage. getting it out of order like that makes you look like a moron.

that’s one problem with feminism and women’s studies. they casually ignore the real facts to make up fake ones.

and isn’t anybody editing this garbage? it’s a sad statement on fresno state education that nobody caught this mistake. either that, or none of the editors stayed awake long enough to read to the end of the third graf.

troll THAT forrest valdiviez!

I certainly agree that the past is important ,which is why I have to point out that the 19th ammendment, giving women the right to vote, was ratified on August 26, 1920. Slavery was abolished by the Emancipation Proclamation On Jan. 1, 1863 and the 13th ammendment ratified Dec. 6 1865. Clearly it would have been difficult for “…women who fought and won the right to vote,” and didn’t …”return to their homes and daily lives,” to “put their energy” into the abolishment of slavery nearly 60 years after it had already taken place. It is certainly true that there were many women, and men, who were advocating abolition and the right of women to vote prior to the Civil War, but that is clearly not what you said or intended in light of your “returned to their homes” comment.
History should be used to inform the present, not to compile a list of evidence in support of already drawn conclusions.

I certainly agree that the past is important ,which is why I have to point out that the 19th ammendment, giving women the right to vote, was ratified on August 26, 1920. Slavery was abolished by the Emancipation Proclamation On Jan. 1, 1863 and the 13th ammendment ratified Dec. 6 1865. Clearly it would have been difficult for “…women who fought and won the right to vote,” and didn’t …”return to their homes and daily lives,” to “put their energy” into the abolishment of slavery nearly 60 years after it had already taken place. It is certainly true that there were many women, and men, who were advocating abolition and the right of women to vote prior to the Civil War, but that is clearly not what you said or intended in light of your “returned to their homes” comment.
History should be used to inform the present, not to compile a list of evidence in support of already drawn conclusions.

Certain men would argue that they, in many regards, are being raped by the very institution of marriage. I have seen male friends and colleagues emasculated by their wives. Do this!, Do that!, You’re no good! Sad state of affairs.

Feminism peaked in a time long past.

Still with the feminism stuff?

On public college campuses, most schools are at least 55-60% female—-how about a Title IX consideration of that? Should the fed. gov’t come down on those campuses like it does in the area of sports and campus activities when a little imbalance is seen in university sports?

In an attempt to create a more fair playing field for women, the feminist movement has done undue harm on American males young and old alike.