The Fresno Police Department is facing accusations of police brutality after a video surfaced showing officers beating a homeless man.
How could the police department resolve this and similar issues? Would a police auditor increase the credibility of internal affairs investigations?
Rattlesnake Wiggle • Feb 19, 2009 at 9:25 pm
Left wing attempts at police oversight are generally doomed from the start because of their asinine nature and the nutjobs who are generally included in such processes—-the idea that police are roaming the streets targeting innocents is hard to accept—-mostly because its untrue. Lets see the entire video of the homeless man sidewalk incident.
Rattlesnake Wiggle • Feb 20, 2009 at 4:25 am
Left wing attempts at police oversight are generally doomed from the start because of their asinine nature and the nutjobs who are generally included in such processes—-the idea that police are roaming the streets targeting innocents is hard to accept—-mostly because its untrue. Lets see the entire video of the homeless man sidewalk incident.
Anonymous • Feb 19, 2009 at 12:10 pm
The police are people too, and like every where you have a few bad ones in the bunch. These bad ones have crimes to hide and if it were not for an honest person with a camera nobody woulld know about the homeless man they beat up. Even the mayor did not like it however we are waiting to see what she does about it. It seems the police department is covering up a Rampart scandal here in Fresno, google Rampart scandal in Los Angeles. This is where some cops became criminals. This is why Fresno needs an independant police auditor. Someone to police the police. Until then it is up to all good people to carry their cameras and do the job of keeping bad cops in line by recording them and putting the pictures on the internet on places like u tube etc.. You will know the bad cops or people who do not want independant oversight, these people have crimes to hide and do not want anybody watching over them so they can get away with murder. All of you good people in Fresno will pay the price for letting bad or evil people like these harm others unjustly. Like the president said “evil triumphs when good people do nothing”. It is time for all good people to stand up and call for an independant police auditor in Fresno.
Anonymous • Feb 19, 2009 at 7:10 pm
The police are people too, and like every where you have a few bad ones in the bunch. These bad ones have crimes to hide and if it were not for an honest person with a camera nobody woulld know about the homeless man they beat up. Even the mayor did not like it however we are waiting to see what she does about it. It seems the police department is covering up a Rampart scandal here in Fresno, google Rampart scandal in Los Angeles. This is where some cops became criminals. This is why Fresno needs an independant police auditor. Someone to police the police. Until then it is up to all good people to carry their cameras and do the job of keeping bad cops in line by recording them and putting the pictures on the internet on places like u tube etc.. You will know the bad cops or people who do not want independant oversight, these people have crimes to hide and do not want anybody watching over them so they can get away with murder. All of you good people in Fresno will pay the price for letting bad or evil people like these harm others unjustly. Like the president said “evil triumphs when good people do nothing”. It is time for all good people to stand up and call for an independant police auditor in Fresno.
bucket fan • Feb 18, 2009 at 11:35 pm
LAILAND let me get this straight, lets put aside badges and law, and lets assume i have more power than you do. You are standing there with your hands in pockets and i fear you will threaten the power i have, therefore i come at you and you reach for something in your pocket and OH its not a harmful weapon at all.
In that struggle i wrestle you down along with another man with power, and you are saying it is ok for me to beat you on the head over and over and over again?
Even after i clearly brought you down with the assitance of another person with power. Something is wrong when it is ok to beat someone after he is down. How do you justify “throwing wrists” and inflictng pain on someone even after it shows the man is down?
Please dont become an officer.
bucket fan • Feb 19, 2009 at 6:35 am
LAILAND let me get this straight, lets put aside badges and law, and lets assume i have more power than you do. You are standing there with your hands in pockets and i fear you will threaten the power i have, therefore i come at you and you reach for something in your pocket and OH its not a harmful weapon at all.
In that struggle i wrestle you down along with another man with power, and you are saying it is ok for me to beat you on the head over and over and over again?
Even after i clearly brought you down with the assitance of another person with power. Something is wrong when it is ok to beat someone after he is down. How do you justify “throwing wrists” and inflictng pain on someone even after it shows the man is down?
Please dont become an officer.
dw • Feb 17, 2009 at 3:29 pm
gm–in re your comment regarding the Ara Arax case, you should be aware that the District Attorney’s office went to great effort NOT to delve into the Fresno PD aspects of that case when the perp was tried. Ara’s family, after the jury’s verdict, expressed frustration that those issues weren’t opened up during the trial.
The time has come for some sort of independent review of the police department. Because of his past, I don’t have a lot of faith that Jerry Dyer can live up to the community’s expectations. There have been way too many problems inside PD on Dyer’s watch. Lest we forget the captain who was having an affair with a married woman (and using a city issue cell phone to pursue the gal). And the mysterious “suicide” of another ranking officer near the chief’s house south of town that many in this community believe was likely murder.
City manager Andrew Souza made a telling comment in a staff report on the IPA several years ago: “we can either implement something now, or wait until there’s a crisis such as having a member of a prominent family getting shot by a” cop. Seems like we have a crisis now.
dw • Feb 17, 2009 at 10:29 pm
gm–in re your comment regarding the Ara Arax case, you should be aware that the District Attorney’s office went to great effort NOT to delve into the Fresno PD aspects of that case when the perp was tried. Ara’s family, after the jury’s verdict, expressed frustration that those issues weren’t opened up during the trial.
The time has come for some sort of independent review of the police department. Because of his past, I don’t have a lot of faith that Jerry Dyer can live up to the community’s expectations. There have been way too many problems inside PD on Dyer’s watch. Lest we forget the captain who was having an affair with a married woman (and using a city issue cell phone to pursue the gal). And the mysterious “suicide” of another ranking officer near the chief’s house south of town that many in this community believe was likely murder.
City manager Andrew Souza made a telling comment in a staff report on the IPA several years ago: “we can either implement something now, or wait until there’s a crisis such as having a member of a prominent family getting shot by a” cop. Seems like we have a crisis now.
gm • Feb 17, 2009 at 10:30 am
dw
You might want to try and keep somewhat up to date on events before you toss around the “doing hits … for organized crime” remark. The Ara Arax case was solved a few years ago. Turns out it was a botched robbery, not a mob hit. The story was widely covered and Mark Arax even wrote about finally finding out who was responsible and how it ultimately cleared his father of having any association with criminal elements. Check out the LA Times from Dec. 12, 2004 or the Fresno Bee from Jan. 3, 2001 for just a couple of examples.
As for the issue at hand, I agree Lailand that we didn’t see everything that happened and, based on this individuals past actions, it is fair to say that the suspect was non-compliant and combative. Most of us understand that some measure of force will be used in those situations and I for one will not criticize the police for doing so. However, please spare up the “throwing wrists” explaination as that clearly is not what took place. The officer was without question trying to punch the suspect to force him to comply. By trying to say something else you undercut your necessary force argument. My real problem with the actions of the officers is the final punch. The suspect was face down with both arms behind his back, under the control of the other officer. The punch delivered to the head at that point was not about subduing the suspect. It was about anger and adrenaline. While those are understandable human reactions we have to demand more from people that we give that type of authority and power to.
Finally, I will never support a police auditor if it is used as a weapon against the overwhelming majority of officers who do a great job and put their lives on the line daily. At the same time, I don’t think it is prudent to have a system in which law enforcement oversees itself. There is an inherent conflict of interest, too many people that benefit from sweeping problems under the rug. We cannot police a community through force alone. There has to be trust and to argue that all of the mistrust that exists between parts of the community and the police force is a fairy tale, a product of agitators, is shortsighted.
gm • Feb 17, 2009 at 5:30 pm
dw
You might want to try and keep somewhat up to date on events before you toss around the “doing hits … for organized crime” remark. The Ara Arax case was solved a few years ago. Turns out it was a botched robbery, not a mob hit. The story was widely covered and Mark Arax even wrote about finally finding out who was responsible and how it ultimately cleared his father of having any association with criminal elements. Check out the LA Times from Dec. 12, 2004 or the Fresno Bee from Jan. 3, 2001 for just a couple of examples.
As for the issue at hand, I agree Lailand that we didn’t see everything that happened and, based on this individuals past actions, it is fair to say that the suspect was non-compliant and combative. Most of us understand that some measure of force will be used in those situations and I for one will not criticize the police for doing so. However, please spare up the “throwing wrists” explaination as that clearly is not what took place. The officer was without question trying to punch the suspect to force him to comply. By trying to say something else you undercut your necessary force argument. My real problem with the actions of the officers is the final punch. The suspect was face down with both arms behind his back, under the control of the other officer. The punch delivered to the head at that point was not about subduing the suspect. It was about anger and adrenaline. While those are understandable human reactions we have to demand more from people that we give that type of authority and power to.
Finally, I will never support a police auditor if it is used as a weapon against the overwhelming majority of officers who do a great job and put their lives on the line daily. At the same time, I don’t think it is prudent to have a system in which law enforcement oversees itself. There is an inherent conflict of interest, too many people that benefit from sweeping problems under the rug. We cannot police a community through force alone. There has to be trust and to argue that all of the mistrust that exists between parts of the community and the police force is a fairy tale, a product of agitators, is shortsighted.
dw • Feb 16, 2009 at 9:49 am
I have to agree with Abe–this sort of thing happens all the time….
Let’s take a look at Fresno PD’s problems: three narcotics officers charged and a fourth under investigation for their involvement in auto thefts and operating an alleged chop shop, and the narcotics unit shut down as the result–when you have this many officers in a specialized unit involved in wrong-doing, usually the entire unit has gone bad due to bad supervision. A group of officers operating in Southeast Fresno a’la The Shield, busting heads and violating people’s rights–which cost the city a multi-million dollar settlement, and one officer indicted by a special grand jury. Endless incidents of drugs and money disappearing from the PD property room. And, the cop who murdered his girlfriend’s husband while in uniform (he used the uniform to gain entry to the victim’s home). At least, the PD isn’t doing hits for what passes for organized crime in this town anymore (see In My Father’s Name, by Mark Arax, available at Madden Library).
dw • Feb 16, 2009 at 4:49 pm
I have to agree with Abe–this sort of thing happens all the time….
Let’s take a look at Fresno PD’s problems: three narcotics officers charged and a fourth under investigation for their involvement in auto thefts and operating an alleged chop shop, and the narcotics unit shut down as the result–when you have this many officers in a specialized unit involved in wrong-doing, usually the entire unit has gone bad due to bad supervision. A group of officers operating in Southeast Fresno a’la The Shield, busting heads and violating people’s rights–which cost the city a multi-million dollar settlement, and one officer indicted by a special grand jury. Endless incidents of drugs and money disappearing from the PD property room. And, the cop who murdered his girlfriend’s husband while in uniform (he used the uniform to gain entry to the victim’s home). At least, the PD isn’t doing hits for what passes for organized crime in this town anymore (see In My Father’s Name, by Mark Arax, available at Madden Library).
Abe • Feb 13, 2009 at 3:27 pm
Occurences like monday’s happen all the time, they just aren’t usually caught on tape. We need a truly independent police auditor now! Dyer and his gang will only continue justify their actions indefinitely, an internal investigation does absolutely nothing. The whole damn system is guilty.
Abe • Feb 13, 2009 at 10:27 pm
Occurences like monday’s happen all the time, they just aren’t usually caught on tape. We need a truly independent police auditor now! Dyer and his gang will only continue justify their actions indefinitely, an internal investigation does absolutely nothing. The whole damn system is guilty.
Lailand • Feb 13, 2009 at 12:43 pm
The video that surfaced was very incomplete and unfortunatly didn’t show the whole story. Officers are taught that when a suspect does not comply, to use force to make them comply with orders. The office was “throwing wrists”, which although hurts does not leave any permanent damage. The police are targeted by the media every time they use nessicary foce or a suspect. What the media fails to report is the whole story. In this story the man would not comply with orders to removed his arms from under his body and he was was seen reaching for his waistband which is seen as a threat, owing to the fact that he could have pulled a weapon on the officers. There is no need to any outside investigations or autitors. The public needs to get the whole story before they make accusations.
Lailand • Feb 13, 2009 at 7:43 pm
The video that surfaced was very incomplete and unfortunatly didn’t show the whole story. Officers are taught that when a suspect does not comply, to use force to make them comply with orders. The office was “throwing wrists”, which although hurts does not leave any permanent damage. The police are targeted by the media every time they use nessicary foce or a suspect. What the media fails to report is the whole story. In this story the man would not comply with orders to removed his arms from under his body and he was was seen reaching for his waistband which is seen as a threat, owing to the fact that he could have pulled a weapon on the officers. There is no need to any outside investigations or autitors. The public needs to get the whole story before they make accusations.